of course I'm not OK

Wondering how you’re going to stay sane during this quarantine-heavy winter? Join the club!

Thankfully, in today’s podcast, Karen & Katie chat with the incredible Kate Silver, a writer and editor in Chicago, about her plans for a mentally-healthy winter. The trio also chat about found joys in the pandemic and the concept of creativity right now. What’s more: our sponsors DELIVER this week – make sure to take note of all of the fabulous folks who are supporting us – thank you, Folks!

Resources for this episode: Kate Silver; Matt Villano’s CNN.com story ‘How to Decline Thanksgiving in the Name of COVID’.

Follow Of Course I’m Not Ok: The Podcast on Twitter & Instagram, and email us with questions/comments/concerns at notokpod@gmail.com. This episode is sponsored by Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. 


Karen: Welcome.

Katie: Hi, I’m Major Biden.

Karen: And I’m Champ Biden.

Katie: We are the two adopted German shepherds of the Biden family who are about to inhabit the White House and be the first adoptive dogs ever in the White House. You are listening to Of Course I’m Not Okay: The Podcast. Join us as we talk about mental health, coping with quarantine, and what conversations we wish the world was having all about creativity and a bunch of other shit. Woof.

Karen: I can’t. For some of our episodes, we’ll chat, and potentially pee on, writers and creatives to get their take. Thank you for joining us on this journey.

Katie: Hi, Karen. As always, wonderful to see you.

Karen: It’s so good to see you, Katie.

Katie: It’s been a super exciting week, I guess you could say, because the last time we talked, we did not know that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won the election. I will tell you that when all of that came down last Saturday, I was sobbing on the couch. Tears of joy watching Kamala speak. You know, I love, I mean Joe is great, but like Kamala is, you know, I kind of wish that she was the president, but whatever, you know. Yeah.

Karen: I think a lot of us voted for that ticket. I’m making air quotes around ticket but really knew who we were voting for. And I think it’s interesting. A week, almost a week after that, we know that Joe Biden has won, but Trump doesn’t know that he lost. That’s what I find fascinating. Like-

Katie: Yes.

Karen: Okay. Go ahead and stage a coup of the government. You just have right at it.

Katie: If I’m going to be totally, brutally honest, it’s been a tough week because I feel like there’s been, it almost felt like this pent up just terror and tension. And then, to be like, Oh, okay. And then also to be like, [inaudible].

Karen: What.

Katie: Now that, front page, Wall Street Journal today, today’s Friday. There’s going to be a hand count of 5 million ballots in Georgia.

Karen: What.

Katie: Yeah.

Karen: Ok.

Katie: And so I don’t even know what that means. How can you hand count that? It was like above the fold in the Wall Street Journal, I don’t know. And so like, I was just, ‘But even so Trump’s not going to win.’ And so, it’s just been a little bit weird and like, I felt a little hungover. A little is just a lie. I felt a lot hung over and just like more anxiety.

Karen: That is a really good way to put it. It is a hangover and it’s also a hangover that, you know, isn’t going to get better. Like, I feel like we have 10, nine more weeks of this horror show and then we get to January. And then I feel like the real work starts because I feel like they’re not going to stop working. They’re going to spend the next four years ensuring that he gets elected again or that some other horror show gets elected. So yeah, I was so happy that Saturday. And I went out to the North side of Chicago and went to a park and there were just people everywhere – safely distance, of course and masked.

Katie: So great.

Karen: And came downtown, and there were like people literally dancing in the streets and flipping off Trump Tower. And it’s just this really joyous, it was just so nice to see so many people happy all at the same time in 2020.

Katie: Yes.

Karen: There’s just been a lot of anger and sadness. And it was great to see so many people happy. What a, what a week-slash-quarter it’s been.

Katie: Yes. What a, what a quarter. And yeah, another nine or 10 weeks. And then we can celebrate on January 21st. I will have a Zoom party or something. I don’t know.

Karen: I kept thinking that I was going to have a Zoom like, impromptu on Saturday. Like Zoom, let’s all hang out. And then it was like, ‘I don’t want to look at this computer. I gotta get out of my house.’

Katie: Right. I know. You want to just physically move and like, be with people. And yeah, that’s just beautiful that that was happening in Chicago. But speaking of Chicago, we have someone today that is just this incredible, incredible guest. Someone close to both of our hearts, personally, friends with us, and also this incredible bad-ass journalist Kate Silver. I mean, it was just so much fun to talk to her. I loved it.

Karen: I absolutely loved it. And I think I texted you this week. Like I listen to our episodes and I realized like our conversations make me feel smarter. I don’t know if I actually am smarter, but I feel smarter. And that’s how I felt talking to Kate Silver. Like I am actively getting smarter right now, just being on the same Zoom call with you.

Katie: Oh, I completely agree. That’s exactly how I feel. I mean, for people who are listening who do not know who Kate Silver is, get ready. She’s amazing. She is an award-winning freelance writer and she’s an editor. She has more than 15 years of journalism experience and she’s based near you in Chicago, but you can find a lot of her stuff on the Washington Post, O the Oprah magazine, civil war, *uh, in Crain’s Chicago Business. I mean, she’s been published everywhere. She also is a very, very well respected travel journalist. So she’s written Frommer’s Easy Guide to Chicago, which you can get on Amazon. We’ll link all of her stuff in the description of the episode on any platform that you’re listening on right now. But it was just so much fun. I feel like our conversation was very wide reaching and honestly, I mean, it was very honest.

Karen: It was super honest. And I feel like you and I just – peel back the curtain here – so you and I usually right, we get on, we catch up and then we decide on a theme. And this time, we got on the call with Kate, and then we had this great conversation, we had so much fun. And then you and I both afterward were like, what was the theme of that? What was, that was great. What did we talk about? So we figured it out, but yeah, I loved that it was so wide ranging and it just felt very real. Like it’s, very authentic conversation. We did not pull any punches.

Katie: No, we did not pull punches. And basically listeners, you are listening to us having wine together. We’re not drinking wine right now, like technically, but basically we were like out for a drink and that was, we just recorded the conversation. That was kind of what it would have been.

Karen: I love that. That is exactly right. Yes.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. So enjoy Kate Silver!

Katie: Welcome to the pod, Kate Silver. It’s so wonderful to see you.

Kate: Thank you. It’s so great to see you both too.

Karen: Yay!

Katie: This is so fun.

Karen: Yeah, I know. And we have had you on our list – no pressure – to be on for the whole first season. You were on the list.

Kate: Oh gosh.

Karen: So we’re very happy to have you on for season two.

Kate: My nose didn’t even itch.

Katie: Oh my gosh. I mean, really, it was like within. It was, it was probably like our second meeting, Karen, and we’re like, ‘Who should we have?’ And I mentioned Michelle Obama, and then you were like, actually Kate Silver. And I was like, you know what, fuck Michelle. Kate Silver. You’re right.

Karen: Or was it the other way around? Was it like, you said Kate. And I was like, ‘Or Michelle Obama.’ Second choice, Michelle Obama.

Katie: Toss up.

Kate: It’s good to be sloppy seconds. That’s great.

Katie: Michelle’s still on the list, but you know, it’s wonderful to have you, Kate here. I’m just so excited. Cause I mean, so I’m in Bend and the two of you are probably not super, super far away. Both in Chicago.

Karen: Yeah.

Kate: Yeah. I’m in the Ravenswood neighborhood.

Karen: So jealous.

Kate: Karen, you’re in Southland?

Karen: Downtown. I just also realized it, Kate. I mean, of course we talked you up a ton, but we didn’t say what you do. So we know that you’re a writer and a creative. I don’t know if you can talk a little bit about what you do.

Kate: Well, yeah, I’m a freelance journalist based in Chicago. I do a mix of writing, a lot of travel, health, business, and lately a lot more sponsored content.

Katie: Chicago has really been in the news a lot. I feel like, I mean, with the Black Lives Matter movement, and then, but also like, just this week. I mean the two of you, like, have been on the receiving end of this. Like, I don’t know what it is. Can you explain, like a suggested lockdown? Is that what it is? Like the whole concept that the country is spiking, but Chicago in particular seems like it’s in the headlines. I mean, that’s, it’s kind of a scary thing. Like, so you’re basically not allowed to go outside much. Is that the whole idea?

Kate: We’re urged not to. I think urged is the correct word, or the word that they’re using for 30 days and especially on Thanksgiving. So you can, like kids who are going to school can still do that. You can go to the grocery store. You can get take out, but they’re asking, and salons are still open and you know, some of the other businesses. But yeah, it’s an urging. Yeah.

Karen: Yes. And I do enjoy that language. It’s also an advisory. It’s not an order.

Kate: Yes.

Karen: We’re devising. We’re not ordering you. And I mean, everybody I’m talking to, I don’t know if you’ve heard this too, Kate, is people feel like this is Lori’s chance to be like, ‘This is just an advisory. If you all do what I ask you to do, we don’t have to go to a shutdown.’ And then in a week she’s gon be like, ‘See, I told you.’

Kate: You messed up. You did this.

Karen: You brought this on yourself. Precisely. Yeah.

Katie: Oh man, that sounds like an abusive relationship. Is Lori the governor or the mayor of Chicago?

Karen: She’s the mayor.

Kate: She’s the mayor. Got it. Okay.

Kate: Well, my sister has a theory and I kind of, I think she’s making an interesting point that before The Urging and The Advising was issued, she was thinking that it would come and it would be kind of an out for a lot of people who are on the fence about Thanksgiving, and thinking about going to family gatherings, because it has become so political and it is not an easy decision to make. That that would give them something to fall back on.

Karen: That is exactly what I told my partner yesterday. That’s-

Kate: Ok.

Karen: Yeah. That that it does give people, because I do think people are getting a ton of pressure. No offense to boomers, but I’m hearing from younger people, they’re getting all this pressure from their parents and grandparents, like, ‘What do you mean you’re not coming home?’ And I do totally agree that this like, ‘Well, Auntie Lori told me I can’t. So I got to stay home.

Kate: Auntie Lori.

Katie: I mean, I was reading an article today by a fellow writer, his name’s Matt Bolano. I’ll link it in the description of this podcast. But he was writing the story about like what to do on Thanksgiving, basically how to say no to your family on Thanksgiving. And it was kind of a funny piece. And I mean, he’s a funny guy in real life, but I actually think he wasn’t trying to be funny. The quotes though were talking about like how it’s really important to have conversations with your family of like, okay, if you’re going to see somebody, if you’re like, ‘Okay, I’m going to do this,’ have a conversation about like, well, how much have you been quarantining? What has been your protocol and that kind of thing. But the last quote in this CNN.com article was this guy being like, ‘Okay, yeah, you can ask that. But that’s basically like asking someone who they’ve slept with.’ Like, it’s very sensitive and people are super weird about it. And it’s like, I actually think that guy has a point, even though it was kind of funny. It wasn’t really funny because I’m definitely having conversations with my husband Tyler right now. Like, how do we talk to people about like, ‘Have you been safe?’ And if they say no, then do you just say like, ‘Cool, you in 2022!’ Like, I don’t know.

Kate: Yeah. There’s this whole peer pressure around how we interact now. And how far are you going to go? And like, we’ve certainly had, we have a backyard fortunately, and have been able to entertain through the summer. But there’s different levels of who comes, and what they expect, and whether they go in for the hug and whether they follow you inside. And I mean, you are put in a spot and have to decide, like, ‘Do we just go with it? It’s just, you know, it’s just here and then gone.’ Or do you put the kibosh on and be like, ‘Oh no, we do elbow bumps. Now, you know. This is what we do. ‘

Karen: It’s really hard for those of us who are huggers. Cause I’m, you know, I am always so struck when people aren’t huggers and I have to remind myself, like, not everybody wants, not everybody wants that. And to find myself being the person who’s like, ‘Oh. No, no. And I’m doing the kind of Godzilla holding the lady, you know, thing with my hands. It’s weird to be that person. And it is true in terms of asking, that it’s similar to asking about people’s sex lives because it’s so personal. And now these personal decisions you’re making have to be public to people in other parts of your life. Right? Like you now have to discuss how you’re living your life with other groups of people. And I do think that’s really awkward.

[musical interlude]

Karen: Today’s episode of Of Course I’m Not Okay: The Podcast is brought to you by questions you can ask other than how are you.

Katie: Some options are, how rusty are your razors?

Karen: Did you shower today?

Katie: When was the last time you wore pants that did not have elastic waistbands?

Karen: When was the last time you had popcorn for dinner?

Katie: Have you had more than one bar of dark chocolate per day for the past six months? If so, we can be friends.

Karen: Questions, alternatives. We have them.

Katie: Thank you for sponsoring this podcast.

[musical interlude]

Katie: Kind of talk about how we’re all making it through is totally one of these themes for this podcast. And Kate, I wonder if you can talk to us a little bit about life as a writer and as a creative and just as an overall stupendously fabulous human being. I wonder what you’re doing to maintain joy right now. Or in the moments that you can maintain joy. Cause I don’t think all of us are joyful all the time, but like what are a few of the things in the past, like, let’s say eight months that have really brought a lot of joy.

Kate: I would say spending money makes me happy. The cat, the cat house – I used to live in Las Vegas – the cat shelter in my neighborhood put up an online auction last night, and they have some really great things, and I’ve been bidding on them. Is that serotonin or dopamine? It releases something.

Katie: Something feeling good.

Kate: Yeah. Momentarily. We have adopted two pandemic pets and they have brought a lot of joy. We got a dog in March, which was actually the first weekend of lockdown. I had actually just started fostering myself and fostered a dog who was so sweet, but had some separation anxiety. And then, my husband’s coworker mentioned that she had been fostering a dog and didn’t really want to give it up, but wanted to find it a good home. Would we like to meet this dog? So this dog, whose name is now C-PAP, is my little shadow. He’s a little Chihuahua, maybe Cordy mix, maybe Wiener, dog mix. He’s like a little sausage. And he spins around in circles like a circus dog when he’s happy. And he tries to predict where I’m going to go next and races there to get there before I do. He is 10 years old, but he acts like, he just, he makes me so happy. I also on the shopping note have found great joy in shopping for him because he gets cold all the time. Like this is not just for, Katie I see your dog in the background. Not just froofy, but I bought him some, you know, warmer weather, warmer-inducing clothing. And you could tell this dog had been dressed before because from the first shirt I got, he put his head immediately through the little head hole, and I put his arms through and then he got this spring in his step, like, ‘Yep, this is what I do.’.

Katie: Oh my gosh. Also the fact that his name is C-PAP. Can you explain how that, like C-PAP machine when people have sleep apnea?

Kate: Like C-PAP machine. That was actually suggested by a friend of mine, Renee who, you know. I had sent her a video of this dog snoring because it snores so loudly. Again, sausage. And she’s like, ‘Oh my gosh, that dog needs a C-PAP machine.’ And I was like, ‘Oh, I think you just found that dog’s name.’ So C-PAP has become his name. And then we also got a senior cat. Um, her name is Juliet and she is a plus size senior as well. She is smush-faced, and she bites-

Karen: Oh.

Kate: And she makes us laugh almost as much as the dog does. She is my husband’s definitely, the dog is mine.

Katie: Aw.

Kate: And yeah, she’s just, she’s lovely as well. Her alternative names are Lava Cake for her size and covering and my nephew last weekend just started referring to her as Blob.

Karen: Yeah. Aw, well God love you for getting senior pets. I feel like people are sometimes afraid of them, but they’re awesome.

Kate: They’re awesome. And I feel like they fit my husband and I’s lifestyle. You know, we did not have children because we did not want to deal with the energy level and these old animals, they just kind of want to lay around too.

Katie: They have such big personalities. It’s like, I mean, it’s amazing right now because I keep hearing from so many people who are looking for dogs or cats, that it’s actually hard to find them.

Kate: Right?

Katie: Like, it’s hard to find them in shelters. And it’s hard. I mean, you know, I know some breeders are still breeding, but there are waiting lists and, you know, price gouging on dogs. And it’s just so interesting how people are really embracing pets at home. I mean, they do bring so much joy. I mean, Karen, I know that you have your two beautiful cats usually giving you notes over your shoulder. I don’t see them right now though.

Karen: They’re both asleep in a chair right now, but yes, usually one of them is stabbing me and then the other one will sit behind me and judge me in real-time during my meetings.

Kate: I think that’s great.

Katie: So for people who are, I mean, so many people who listen to this podcast I think are either creatives or writers or want to be writers, and Kate you’re so incredibly prolific and talented, you know. What are, I mean, I know that you write for a living, but like what are some things that have kind of helped you stay creative right now? Or are you just like, ‘Fuck it, I’m not creative at all,’ because like I know that I’ve felt that way. But I think that there’s, I don’t know. It’s just been hard. It’s been like this rollercoaster for creatives, I think out there, and kind of what’s been working for you or what’s not worked for you?

Kate: I don’t feel creative at all. I feel very deadline-oriented. I feel fortunate that work has been really good and assignments are flowing, so I don’t have to pitch or be creative. I did start recently thinking about the impending winter in Chicago and what that might mean for our already enclosed lives. And I feel like I’ve started, I’m going to set aside time this weekend and come up with a list of things to do. Because like, obviously we’re beyond the Zoom happy hours. Like, those were so March, April, May 2020.

Katie: [inaudible] five years ago.

Kate: Yeah, I know. I feel like I’m at a point where it’s like, there’s little street art center here. There’s an art center and they have pinch pot animal classes. So you can make little clay animals over Zoom, which sounds amazing.

Karen: Ooo.

Kate: I mean, they have, I think, I don’t know if they have jewelry making. It was really the ceramics that sounded more interesting, and animals, and pinch pot, that sounded more interesting to me. So I started looking at that kind of stuff. I attended a reading, a Zoom reading last night with five women writers in Chicago at The Bookseller. And it was just such a relief because it was like, ‘Oh, I know some of the women.’ So that was fantastic. They were hilarious. It was, the theme was quarantine. So it was quarantine-themed. So it was like, it was the 14th year for them. So it’s like, you’re 14 and you’re grounded, and they kind of riffed on that. And it was just so nice. I didn’t have to talk, my sister was watching it at her house. We were texting back and forth, just taking in new, interesting, fun, feminine energy that was also in real time in real life, was great. So I, I know that I’ve had a number of author friends talk about their book launches and I haven’t looked into that, but now I’m suddenly like, ‘Oh, we can attend author talks all around the world now.’ Like, ‘This is something to fill my schedule with.’ So I feel like I need to, I feel like that creative muscle is needing to be, it is atrophying. It needs to be worked on a little bit.

[musical interlude]

Karen: Today’s episode is brought to you by ‘Of Course I’m Not Coming to Your House.’

Katie: For Thanksgiving or Christmas or any gathering. It’s just not safe. Thanks anyway, but no. I’m not coming to your house.

Karen: I’m not hanging out with you at all. See you in 2022.

Katie: January 2022 minimum. Mark your calendar. Thank you for sponsoring this podcast.

[musical interlude]

Katie: I just love your answers so much Kate cause it’s so brutally honest like that. You’re just not feeling creative. I so appreciate that. You’re saying that because I feel like that’s just so many people are feeling the exact same way and I feel that way too often. I mean, but I’m with you. I mean, I think that it’s like, being creative during a pandemic. There’s just so much, I don’t know. At least in the beginning, I feel like there was a lot of expectation, at least maybe it was just internal, but maybe some people were talking about it. And now it’s like, if you’re not being creative, it’s cool. No problem. I mean, I do these workshops where I, you know, they’re called joy and vulnerability workshops where I like, you know, I get a group of women on Zoom and we, you know, have a writing prompt and then we’ll share, and then we’ll dance for 60 seconds to Diana Ross. And then we’ll like, do it all over again. And we do this every week and that’s really, really fun. So for that two hour period, it’s great, but it’s hard to be creative all the time. Karen, what about you?

Karen: Yeah. You know, as you guys are talking, I’m thinking through. Honestly, I don’t know how creative I would have been this year anyway, honestly. Like I feel like I’ve created two podcasts in quarantine, right like?

Katie: Right.

Karen: That feels pretty impressive to me. And I can’t say whether or not I would have done that had we not been locked down.

Katie: Mhm.

Karen: So I guess I’m also, I’m just thinking through what my life looked like before and how much I filled it with stuff anyway. And I feel like I’m still doing that in quarantine. And in some ways I’m more creative because I have this outlet with you, Katie, and I have the other podcast, but I don’t know that I would have given myself the room and the time to do that in my normal life. If I’m honest with myself about it.

[musical interlude]

Today’s sponsor of Of Course I’m Not Okay: The Podcast is the same takeout place that you’ve gone to seven times in the past two months.

Karen: All of the delivery drivers know you.

Katie: Everyone, including Dale behind the cashier’s counter, he knows you. He also is judging you for wearing elastic pants, the same ones that you wore last Tuesday, but it shouldn’t matter. Your love to Dale.

Karen: Thank you, Dale. Thank you, restaurant. What would we do without you?

Katie: Thank you for sponsoring this podcast.

[musical interlude]

Kate: Yeah, I definitely feel like I have leaned more towards escapism than creating. Two, Karen, you mentioned creating two podcasts. So I feel like two of the accomplishments that I’m excited about, really enjoyed during the pandemic where I walked my own two half marathons. So four hours, about four hours each time. DIY route, kind of had an idea where it would end, had my phone to track the steps and get an idea of how further I needed to go before I went home. But that was amazing. I feel like, you know, we all used to travel. I feel like it kind of scratched the travel itch because I, you know, the first time it was, I walked down from my house in Avondale and wound up along Michigan Avenue and looked at, you know, kind of empty streets, but took in my city from a different perspective. And then the second time he headed Northwest, spent some time on Pulaski. I never find myself on Pulaski. So I wandered along Pulaski. Went to a really cool, couple of cool cemeteries, and just saw a different side of Chicago. Listened to audio books, eventually bought a diet soda, and then wound up home, had like a beer and a taco and felt like I accomplished something that day.

Karen: So do you have any advice for those of us, particularly in winter, heading into winter, long, cold winter? I love what you’re doing in terms of making a list of things you can do. Cause I feel like it’s of those things that I wish I thought to do more often, like relatively sane, kind of, ‘Okay. Karen should be writing letters to a-month-from-now Karen about how to get through.’

Kate: Right. Right.

Karen: So any advice?

Katie: I mean, so that’s kind of my goal in making this list. When I have those quicksand days, I can pull myself a little bit out and look at the list. And even if I don’t make an appointment to do something on that list, I have that list in memory of Kate a month ago, who was doing okay. And tomorrow maybe you will be too. I feel like my next stress buy should be better lighting because oh my gosh, it gets dark so early here now, 4:30. And, you know, our house feels dark from 4:30 on. So I feel like a little bit more, you know, we all get a little bit of the sads. The SAD. I would like to improve the lighting in my house. I think that might go further to make me at least be vertical rather than horizontal more often. I feel like my next, I want to start mixing up what we do for dinners. Early on, we did a local subscription, meal subscription service, and that was fun. I feel like now that numbers are spiking, and I’m tired of everything I make, and I don’t really want to spend more time in the grocery store. It’s time to either do local restaurant subscriptions. Cause you know, like I think the Girl & The Goat and some of those other larger restaurant groups are doing meal-kit type things, or meal packages where you can make them at home. And just like, I don’t know, just try to bring something exciting and fun back in the way.

Karen: I totally get that. I also wonder if the vitamin D lights are going to be the thing that sell out.

Kate: Yeah.

Karen: Know what I mean? Like, I feel like there’s this rolling list of things you can’t get any more.

Kate: No, you’re so right. Yeah. Like gas heaters for outside. I’m sure those igloos, whoever wanted to buy those igloos. Another thing I, one of the stories that I’m working on that’s focusing on a number of really cool small businesses. This is what I want to buy. It’s something called Small Garden and it’s this tech garden where this guy basically was going from his teeny tiny apartment to his teeny tiny, tiny cubicle, was kind of trapped, wanted to have plants but kept killing them. And so he’s like an engineer. So he created this garden that the plant, well the sensors in the garden tell you everything that it needs. It has its own LED lights. The app tells you when it needs that light. It tells you when to add water. So like, we go, my husband makes a lot of pizza and we go through a lot of basil. And I mean, this garden, it might be $200, but I feel like we would eat that in basil if you think of buying at the grocery store in those tiny little things, every time. No problem. And also a little bit of joy and light.

Kate: Oh my gosh, this is genius, Kate.

Kate: Isn’t that brillant?!

Katie: What is the name of this again? Because I will-

Kate: There’s a number of them. This one is called Small Garden.

Katie: Small Garden.

Kate: It’s made by a tech company called Edn, E-D-N. But yeah, isn’t that great. And how fun would that be?

Katie: It would also just be a fun winter project. I feel like winter projects are going to kind of be a thing to figure out.

Kate: I know.

Katie: Like, I definitely don’t have a winter project yet. And because I moved from California to winter, like I am basically like, you know, today it was hail snow raining. That’s the thing, it was a slash-slash-slash. And I was like, okay, well, this is fine, but I wouldn’t mind figuring out a indoor garden to occupy my time. Or maybe I should just start learning how to macramé. I don’t know. There’s a lot of things that I need to really think about, to cross-stitch?

Kate: You are in Oregon now.

Katie: Right. Got to try anything.

Karen: I know.

Kate: Also one of the things that sent me down that, aside from interviewing this guy, but when I was doing this, like, Oh my gosh, this is, my life is not enough right now. I was looking into classes I could take. And I started looking into the idea of building your own hydro-aquaponic garden. Like or the hydroponic, the one with the fish and the plants that becomes its own ecosystem. And I found like, ‘Oh, there’s a class on building this. That sounds cool.’ But then everyone’s just like, doing the reviews of the class and it’s like, ‘It’s not enough to learn to build this.’ And then people, like I was looking at, there’s a place in town called The Plant and they do workshops on building your own aquaponics, but it’s like a really intensive, like at least a weekend long, course with lots of tools and pumps and things. I just want fish and plants, but I also don’t want the super cheap version from Amazon. So I need to find some middle ground.

Karen: I mean, that could be a multi-day rabbit hole. I feel like that’s like, research the middle ground. I don’t know if ya’ll do this. I find myself – this is so sad to say out loud – I find myself saving up chores. So I have something to do like, Oh, I can’t do laundry and the dishes today.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. I’m gonna save the laundry so I can binge on Netflix without feeling quite as guilty. Yeah.

Katie: Yes. Yes. I mean, I think that I went really hard for the first three weeks of moving to our new house, and now I don’t have anything to do. Like, we’re just settled in. Shit. I need to take down my drapes and put up new ones. Like, I don’t know what to do. Today I spent 30 minutes online looking for a winter coat for my beagle and I have three options. They’re all on Etsy. One of them is $98. Like I was like, ‘Is that a thing? This is a thing.’ It really, it has 3000 5-star reviews. I was like, ‘This is fake. Like there’s no way this real.’ And then it’s like, Oh no, it’s real. So anyway, that’s what I’ve been doing. That’s a chore that I’m putting off until Saturday. Fun times.

Kate: That’s right. Cause you don’t, because you just moved into this place. So you can’t even go to old like forgotten closets and reorganize them because you’ve already organized them.

Katie: I have all, everything I have, I actually need. How horrible is that?

Karen: What a nightmare.

Katie: It’s a nightmare!

[musical interlude]

Katie: Today’s episode is brought to you by the person who booked Four Seasons Total Landscaping, the day that Biden was elected president. For those of you who do not know the story about Four Seasons Total Landscaping, someone who remains unnamed and is definitely fired, booked a very important press conference with Rudy Giuliani speaking, and thought they were booking it at the Four Seasons Hotel, which is a five-star chain of hotels. And it turned out that they were booking it at Four Seasons Total Landscaping, and it really made our days.

Karen: You were the real MVP of this election season.

Katie: Thank you for that. Also, thank you for the crematorium across the street from Four seasons Landscaping. It was a good touch.

Karen: And the adult bookstore, right next book.

Katie: Yep. You can’t forget the adult bookstore. Thank you person that is not named, but it’s definitely fired and on unemployment for booking Four Seasons Total Landscaping and sponsoring this podcast.

Katie: Oh my gosh, Kate. This was so much fun to talk to you though. Okay. Wait. So if people want to learn more about you and follow you and read your incredible work, where should they look for you?

Kate: My website is thekatesilver.com, T H E Kate Silver.com. I’m on Twitter @K8Silver.

Karen: Thank you so much for being on. I’m so glad we had you on. We’ll have to have, of course we’ll have to do it again.

Kate: Yes.

Katie: Yeah. We can just keep talking for like the next eight hours. This is great.

Kate: Seriously. I feel like we almost need a Thursday night of just this.

Katie: Right?

Kate: Just hit record.

Karen: Exactly.

Katie: Oh my gosh. All right, well, we’ll see you next time. Thanks Kate!

Kate: All right. Take care.

[musical interlude]

Katie: Today’s presenting sponsor of Of Course I’m Not Okay: The Podcast is the manifestation of a publicly traded company called Tuxedo Chocolates that started here, folks.

Karen: For those of you unfamiliar with Tuxedo Chocolates, it involves a person in a tuxedo coming to your house, delivering a square of chocolate to you at the same time every day.

Katie: Yes. And that idea came to Karen and I during this podcast and it exploded. In the manifestation of this dream, it has now become a $2 billion publicly traded company. And we just want to thank you very much, manifestation, for sponsoring this podcast.

[musical interlude].